(no subject)

[yiskah]

There's been discussion in various places recently about the use of offensive words, and as ever, I realised that the only reasonable response to this was through the scientific method of the LJ POLL.

This was quite a hard poll to write, in order to get across the sense in which the words are used, but hopefully it's clearish. In each case, imagine the sentence being said by someone who does not fall into the group the word in question refers to (i.e. the first sentence is not being said by someone gay, etc.).

[Poll #1002412]

I was going to put in a question about other words that you find offensive that I hadn't mentioned (other than the glaringly obvious: nigger, paki, fag etc.; the ones in the poll are all things that seem to be considered borderline-acceptable in a way that other words are not) but I wanted to make the first part of the poll private to encourage people to answer, whereas I'd like people to be able to see the other words being suggested, so please do leave them in comments.

My take: I dislike the use of 'gay' to mean 'uncool' or 'crap'; I wouldn't use it myself (and indeed haven't since I was in my early teens with a couple of friends over, who ended up having a conversation with 'gay' this and 'gay' that in front of two of my parents' gay friends, while I slowly died inside), but I probably wouldn't call someone on their use of it. I would never use 'spazz' or 'retard' (though I'm ashamed to say that I used to use both words) and I find them pretty offensive, and I probably would call someone else on it, if they were someone I knew well. "Mentalist", and similar things like "nutter", "loon" etc. I do use, though when I really think about it I'm uneasy. "Jew" in that context is utterly unacceptable to me, and I'd call someone on their usage of it; similarly "gypped", though slightly less so because I do think that some people genuinely don't know where it comes from (I didn't, until it was pointed out to me). "Lame" I don't find offensive, but it's something I'd probably aviod using among people whom I don't know. I hate the word "chav" and never use it, and would probably open up a discussion with someone else used it, though it'd be more along the lines of "wow, I really hate that word" than "that word is offensive" (and I'd be really interested to hear from Scots about the possible offensiveness of the word "ned", which in my head is an equivalent, but I certainly don't understand all the layers of meanings and cultural assumptions. "Raped" in that context is something that it'd never occur to me to use, and I probably wouldn't comment on someone else using it, though they'd likely get a wide-eyed look as I'd be so taken aback. "Bitch" I'm totally fine with, but I know one or two men who dislike it and consciously avoid it.

I have very, very little time for the "but I didn't meeeeeeeaaaaan it like that!" line of defence, and equally little for the "but some of my best friends are [insert group here] and they use that word!" (It's a different matter if someone falls into the group in question, though I would probably still be a bit taken aback by it.) As far as I'm concerned, the only graceful response to being told "hey, I find this word offensive" is "sorry, I'll be more careful with my language in future". It's a basic matter of respect. (Again, it's a different matter if you're in a very close group of friends where you know for absolute certain that no one's offended; I have a couple of fairly off-colour jokes that I will tell around certain people, but would never even consider telling around people I didn't know very well indeed.)

Thoughts?

Comments

[sushidog.livejournal.com]

With the first one, it depends a bit; I recently described the "numa numa yay" video as the gayest thing ever, but that's ont because it's crap, it's because it's full of pretty, very clean-shaven buff boys prancing around in tight outfits. :-)

[yiskah.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I tried for ages to try and get the the wording right on that one; what I meant was the usage of 'gay' to mean 'bad' or 'uncool'. I'm more accepting of its usage in the sense that you describe (though I'm still not wholly comfortable with it, and wouldn't use it myself).

Oh, damn, I just thought of a semi-comparable one I should have included in the poll - "ghetto".

[typical.livejournal.com]

I wondered whether "OMG, that's so lame!" referred to 'lame' or 'God'... not that I find either offensive.

[yiskah.livejournal.com]

Heh, I meant the 'lame' bit, though I should have known better, given that I've worked with someone who complained about rampant blasphemy before.

[glitzfrau.livejournal.com]

"you're such a bitch" - myself and my mother say it to each other all the time, but I don't think I would say it to anyone else.

[typical.livejournal.com]

Icon love.

[biascut.livejournal.com]

Haha, I'm Ms All Of The Above! It's a wonder I can find ANY WORDS TO SAY AT ALL.

Actually, I could go either way on "you're such a bitch". It would depend whether it was said in anger, so "you're such a bitch" would actually be less offensive than "she's such a fucking bitch." I'd be more offended by gay men using "You're such a bitch!" to each other than women.

I'd also add "Hi, I've been pimping this community everywhere". I do dislike the use of "pimp" has entered the mainstream. Someone complained about its usage on a feminist community yesterday, and I was DELIGHTED.

[biascut.livejournal.com]

Clearly, I missed out the word "that" of that penultimate sentence BECAUSE IT IS OFFENSIVE TO ME.

And there are also all those plays on "retard", like fucktard, spaztard, which, OMG FURY.

[socmot.livejournal.com]

For me the three that stand out are -

- use of the word "skanger" (Irish equivalent of "chav") annoys me no end.
- unless it's an Irish person using the word, the phrases "paddy" and "mick" ares one I find insulting, because they have a history of being used in a pejorative way.
- the word "taig", a derogatory term for a Catholic of Irish extraction, is up there with the word "kike" or "nigger".

[socmot.livejournal.com]

Also - use of the excuse "political correctness gone too far/mad" etc, drives me around the twist. It's not political correctness that makes use of certain words unacceptable it's good bloody manners and respect for the dignity of others.

[braisedbywolves.livejournal.com]

I might have gone with a '1-10' rating - my dislike of 5 and 9 puts everything else in the shade.

Also obviously there are people who don't find ni**er offensive, indeed I'ev seen three debates along the lines of "Charley shouldn't have been kicked off" in the last week.

[yiskah.livejournal.com]

But that would have made the poll MASSIVE!

I've seen a couple of 'Emily shouldn't've been kicked off' debates too, though they've been arguments along the lines of "but she didn't mean it to be offensive" which I have little tolerance for. I included the examples I did as they're all ones that I could imagine people in my acquaintance saying, whereas I can't think of anyone I know who would use nigger, even in the way that Emily did.

[cellardor.livejournal.com]

You do always make me think about things...

I think I do use the word gay to describe something, though not very often and I do feel a bit surprised when it comes out of my mouth. I guess I'm not sure if it's acceptable. It seems to be becoming more commonly used in that way...

I definitely use the word spaz, but only to describe myself (I have no idea if that makes it any better or not), when I am being completely uncoordinated. God is that terrible?

But then I don't use retard (I'm not sure if I put that as offensive though), cos I find that a bit closer to the bone. Gypped I use but more because to me it is just a word and I have never thought about where it comes from - maybe that's the way I am with most words to be honest.

Bitch never sits very well with me. It's not often I use it. Even if I say it to someone in a joking way I feel a bit off about it, and I don't really like being referred to as such.

But, I do think words change their meanings over time and come to mean other things. Whether that makes the new way of using it ok I don't know. I'm going to be interested in the answers here. I suppose anything that makes me think more before opening my mouth is a good thing.

[cellardor.livejournal.com]

make any difference if you look at their dictionary terms? Gypped is in there and has no reference to gypsys (that is where it's from isn't it?). And gay originally meant happy and joyful etc, but to use it in that context now is considered old fashioned and isn't really done.

I'm going to stop now.

[chiller.livejournal.com]

The "jew" one made me gasp a bit, and the "gypped" one did too, but less so and for precisely the same reason as you stated above - I had never associated the term with any race until it was pointed out to me. Since then I've never used it.

I don't like "chav" or "gay" and wouldn't use them. Additionally I would be slightly uncomfortable with anyone who did. In the same vein, I wouldn't use "spaz" or "retard" or "raped" myself, and am not comfortable with them.

I view "lame", "bitch" and "mentalist" as inoffensive (to me).

Basically I have an issue with a generic term for one section of society being used as an insult. If you can't find something non race/sexuality/culture based with which to insult someone, you don't really have an issue with them in my view, or perhaps you do but you need to go away and figure out what it is, and then insult them for THAT.

I strongly dislike generalisations. Yanno. Generally.

[mzdt.livejournal.com]

agreed, completely...

use of a derogative term for a group of people is, to me, bigotry, especially if ascribing characteristics to all people of a certain origin, or living in a certain place - I find it dreadful how 'chav' seems to be perfectable acceptable to many people.

I am aware of coming across as a handwringing straight white liberal, being offended on behalf of others, but, well, I guess I am.

basically basically:

[braisedbywolves.livejournal.com]

'gypped' is a different word from 'gypsy'/'gyppo' (also I have never heard anyone use the latter), whereas 'jew' is the same word as 'jew'.

Re: basically basically:

[ultraruby.livejournal.com]

People used to use 'gyppo' a lot at my school, like if you picked up 2p off the ground or ate someone's food cos they didn't want it, that made you a gyppo. I think it was in parlance in that area because there were quite a lot of traveller camps around the place so gypsies became like the visible 'other'.

Funny, actually, in our learning at work day the other week the man who gave the talk about Wales mentioned that term 'welsh/welch' (the Guardian style guide says always to use the latter, and no I know why) which means to go back on a deal, and comes from English people not trusting Welsh people and thinking they were liars. (Hence also 'Taffy was a welshman, Taffy was a thief') I had a moments panic of 'OMG! I am teh racist against welsh people!' but then I ealised I never use the word, so that's ok).

[stylishbastard.livejournal.com]

I think it really really really depends on context. I was reading one of your pal's userinfo the other day and they stated their complete disgust with regards to 'spaz' and stuff which made me think. When I was young I was absolutely appalled that people would use those kind of words and it is only comparatively recently, when I'm supposed to be more mature, that I've become more open to their use.

For me it depends on context. It's still a word that has shock value, and I generally only use it to emphasise unacceptable levels of venom or something. I make a fair number of jew jokes, but again mainly to drag humour out of being in utterly repulsive bad taste than in being anti-semitic.

I don't like people using 'gay' as a synonym for 'bad', but I can recognise that in most cases people that say such things are generally just aping shitty American slang and are therefore no great threat to homosexuals or anyone else. I'm more likely to use 'gay' to describe something I like.

The term chav annoys me. Ned too. They're just extremely dismissive terms, and are often deployed by disgusted people who have no human experience of either being poor, or being among poor people. It's a real blind spot, particularly among some liberal well-educated types who consider themselves to be threatened.

Hmmmmmm.

[biascut.livejournal.com]

Heh, was that me? I am totally, completely hardcore about the use of "spaz" - my best friend has CP and used to get called it at school, and it is the one word that will stop her dead in her tracks and just ... it's horrible. She'll use cripple and accept cripple from friends she trusts (occasionally - I wouldn't push my luck!) but spaz is right out.

That said, obviously I've got no problems with anyone who does have CP or a comparable disability reclaiming "spaz". I've never met anyone who was trying to personally, though I've heard of some activists doing so.

[deborah_c]

I've actually been thinking quite a bit this morning about what is offensive; some of the posts elsewhere have given me further food for thought. What started it all off this morning was my gardener, though (yes, I have rejoined the domestic employer set, and feel rather guilty about it, but my garden was three feet deep in meadow grass, and there may be wild animals living in it for all I know.)

He turns out to be an ex-electronic engineer, now retired, and as I left he asked what I was doing today. I said that I was mostly trying to explain international standards to a project manager. Having asked me if the project manager was male or female (which seemed like a rather odd question, really), he then said something like "ah, well you'll know how to handle him, then".

I was faintly amused for a moment, which gradually turned to rage as I was cycling to work, and realised what he'd said: that I'd be OK with the project manager because I was a girl, and could presumably use my (mostly nonexistent) feminine wiles rather than, say, because I'm a highly paid software engineer with twenty years of experience. Evidently, "girl" is also an offensive word in the right hands, even when used without intent (or indeed, in this case, without actual use!)

[yiskah.livejournal.com]

Ooooh, yes, that is annoying! I really bristle at any implication that I am using "feminine wiles" as opposed to, say, skills or knowledge or anything like that.

[ozgirlabroad.livejournal.com]

I find it interesting how words change their meaning and power down the years: gay meaning pretty and happy; gay meaning homosexual; gay meaning stupid/bad. I wouldn't use gay in any way but to refer to a homosexual person and in a positive way. I make a very concious effort to never use the word spazz, retard or lame, especially due to my work with mentally and physically impaired communities. It's hard, as the original meaning was slightly changed in the schoolyard. But strangely, I don't find the word mentalist wrong, in my head it means someone willfully stupid and fucked up, not somebody with mental health issues.

I find the use of racially offensive terms completely unforgivable - I took someone to task over the use of the word gyppo last week in a seminar. Not sure abouy gypped - I've never used this term and don't hear it much, ripped off being the more commonly used term.

But the word I've struggled with most is wog, I've blogged about this before. I grew up surrounded by a very loving, large and rowdy Australian-Greek family on my mother's side - I am the only one of my cousins on my mum's side that doesn't speak the language! And they all used the word wog in a positive way, reclaiming it in the way the word gay was reclaimed. It's taken me ages to remember it's an offensive term over here. I am worried that people think badly of me for the times I have used it and I won't use it ever again over here.

It's funny though - I also have a large adopted aboriginal family on my father's side and I've never heard any of them try to relaim words like b***g - and I get very, very, very angry with any one who ever does - it makes me absolutely furious and I've men in remote Queensland communities to task for it.

Sorry, big rant and probably not coherant and very contradictory but this is something I think about a lot.

[slemslempike.livejournal.com]

Can I ask what b***g is? Or if you could point me somewhere that I could find out?

[mirrorblue.livejournal.com]

none of the above

words you can and can't use is all a bit holy book authorised version to me. I'm probably a bit of a moral leper.

[offensive-mango.livejournal.com]

I agree, really*. This poll is so gay.


*(Though I'm not really fond of retard/jew/gypped.)

[pisica.livejournal.com]

"She never buys her round; she's such a jew."

One of the odder data points I have for that particular line: my (Jewish, though no longer observant) dad lives in rural California (near Bakersfield), which is not exactly the shtetl, and has heard people use the expression 'to jew you down', i.e. to bargain/haggle so as to get a better price. I don't know whether they were accusing HIM of doing so; I think it was more in discussion about a third party. He has also been made the treasurer of the motorcycle club because he's Jewish, meaning he's the least likely person to be tempted to embezzle the $1000 or so in the coffers.

Interestingly, when I was embroiled in a 'she's so cheap she never buys drinks' debacle a few years back, the accusation didn't - at least not that I ever found out about - have anything to do with my religion. Though given the subsequent 'it's just like when Hitler invaded Czechoslovakia and everyone appeased him' comparison, I was pretty disgusted with the situation as a whole.

[yiskah.livejournal.com]

Oh yes, I think I've come across "to jew you down", too. Hate it.

On the Jewish theme, what's your view on "heebie-jeebies", in terms of "it gives me the..."? It's not a term I use very much, but I was shocked when someone suggested (not to me, it was online) that it was an anti-Jewish slur.

[jossish.livejournal.com]

I used the word dyke the other day to describe how someone looked and thought nothing of it because within LGBT we use pejorative terms all the time as a reclamative measure, but the straight people I was around were all very taken aback and I realised how very dependent offensiveness is on context. On Gaydar Girls you can specify that you only want to go out with dykes!

I find most of your poll statements relatively offensive but it would completely depend on who used them, how they used them, and my relationship to them. My housemate and I call each other mentalists all the time but we both have a history of mental illness, and besides that, I think we both know we don't mean anything offensive by it. I would hesitate to use it in other contexts though.

Raped, chav, gay, spazz, and jew are the worst offenders from your poll, imo. The others I am ashamed in various degrees to say I have used or indeed still do use, despite the fact that I would typically proclaim that words have power, they're offensive even used jokingly, etc etc. Perhaps I should try harder to practice what I preach!

[biascut.livejournal.com]

I got told off by my landlady once for describing myself as "queer". Oops.

[faeri.livejournal.com]

i didn't fill out the poll because OMG difficult. most of those don't offend me personally, but i recognise that they are offensive and would never use them (eg. jew, retard, etc.) using "gay" to mean "uncool" is not something i would do either, although i will tell one of my close friends "OMG you're SO GAY!" and he is fairly likely to respond with "UGH. heterosexuals are DISGUSTING!" but it depends on the context and the person. i wouldn't assume that, because he doesn't care, other people wouldn't be offended by that sort of thing either. similarly, calling friends "bitch" is perfectly fine but i wouldn't use the word in connection with an acquaintance or colleague because it isn't appropriate and they might find it offensive. i think this is unoffensive to me because, within my group of friends, the term "bitch" isn't gender-specific. i do dislike the "these are my bitches" usage of the word, but it's more the attitude than the word i have the problem with, i think.

i dislike the word chav because it sounds awful, but i don't really see what's offensive about it. the only thing there that makes me feel very uncomfortable is the use of "raped".

[yiskah.livejournal.com]

I don't like "chav" cause it's classist, and often very appearance-driven (Burberry, Kappa tracksuits, etc.), and is often used in a smug, middle class way that makes me very uncomfortable.

It is difficult, and so much of it does depend on context!

[snowballjane.livejournal.com]

At work we use "loon" at lot, with the specific meaning of "crackpot conspiracy theorist". But I do find that can be a difficult line to tread, because a lot of the crackpot conspiracy theorists have very serious mental health issues.

[pisica.livejournal.com]

Ooh, which reminds me (following a discussion on a friend's journal) - if you do version 2 of the quiz, something like 'psychopath' or 'sociopath' might be worth adding.

[lsugaralmond.livejournal.com]

It has never occured to me to find the word 'lame' offensive, even though I spent two years as a teenager on crutches and was referred to at school as 'the crip' - nice. But even then I wouldn't have been offended if somebody had used the word 'lame' to describe something negatively. I think maybe because 'lame' as a word has always meant 'broken' or 'damaged', it isn't a word used to describe a group of people which has gone on to gain a negative connotation as a result of society's prejudices against that group of people. It's a word that originally was used to describe broken or damaged people, which is now also used to describe substandard things. Am I making sense or just rambling?

The rest of them I can completely understand why some people would find them offensive, and I strive not to use any of them, although I find few of them offensive myself. But I am remarkably insensitive when it comes to language really, although this is probably because I am lucky enough to have rarely had it used against me, apart from 'the crip' obviously, but I chose to believe that was affectionate. The only one that I would probably call somebody on is the Jew one, but that's also the only one I've never actually heard anybody use.

[pisica.livejournal.com]

It's a word that originally was used to describe broken or damaged people, which is now also used to describe substandard things.

OED says yes! But it's more interesting than that, as the second usage seems to have started with Chaucer. Meaning 'Of a person or animal: a. Crippled or impaired in any way; weak, infirm; paralysed; unable to move', recorded usage goes back to the 700s, and a less specific meaning of 'Maimed, halting; imperfect or defective, unsatisfactory as wanting a part or parts. Said esp. of an argument, excuse, account, narrative, or the like' - Chaucer, 1300s. And 'lame duck' (as in politics) came in during the 1600s.

So my guess there would be that lame = broken person took the prime spot at some recent point, but that there have always been alternate usages.

[cigogne.livejournal.com]

Hrm... on the use of "ned" - back in the day, to me, "ned" basically meant a thug, with a bit of Buckfast and a Kappa tracksuit thrown in. Now it seems to mean "working-class person with bad taste in clothes" and I don't like that at all. So, if I hear a working class Scottish person refer to someone as a ned it doesn't bother me, because I assume the first meaning, and if I hear someone middle-class using it it bothers me. (And I imagine that this means I have a free pass to use it, because I am working class. But I am probably only working class in my own head).

For the other ones, I have about the same opinions as you and would tend to call anyone on their use.

The thing about "I didn't mean it to be offensive" is difficult I think, because potentially there's no limit to the amount of stuff people could find offensive. But then that sounds like a Daily Mail argument: actually, not that many people are going to call you on something because they're trying to affect an attitude of taking offense. Not in the outerbets anyway.

[class-worrier.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I hate the term chav and the way ned has had its definition shifted considerably.
Where/when I grew up, ned was a term used by working class people to describe teenagers displaying thuggish behaviour.
The worst aspect of it being hijacked by middle class sniders is the way the ned label and accompanying behaviour is a source of pride to some whereas before it was something that brought embarrassment to your family.
God, I sound old.

[bingo-mcdingo.livejournal.com]

Ned has somewhat different connotations to me. I've never been concerned though by the link between my son's name and a Scottish insult.


Those daft Jocks, eh?



Yes, I know, I know...

[yiskah.livejournal.com]

Ha! Your Ned is the only person I know of with that name; perhaps it's due for a resurgence.

And actually, that is interesting - I wonder how Scots feel about the use of 'jock'?

begins intelligently, devolves into douching.

[sinsense.livejournal.com]

Two words that I don't stop class and correct that I wish I did are lame and spazz. I think it's because I just haven't spent enough time training myself, mentally, to associate those words with the people they describe/d. I do drop the word lame every once in a while, but I have been focusing on altering that; it's a popular word with my generation, due, I think, to all the slacker movies that came out when we were teens. I don't use spazz anymore. Believe it or not, I really hadn't associated the word with the group of people, since I'd only ever heard it in joking context, and I am genuinely slow on the uptake sometimes. An LJ friend corrected me, hooray for LJ.

I've stopped class for all the ones I've checked: gay, retarded, Jew, and raped. Also slut, whore, and cracker, for the record. I explained once where gypped came from, but I didn't stop class - it was a personal conversation. I think people aren't using it as much anymore, since I haven't had to explain it since first semester. I learned what it meant when I was younger and a little more earnest, and it dropped out of my vocabulary immediately.

I've never heard mentalist and chav used. American loser!

I won't stop class for bitch, but that's because my students more often use it as a synonym for pain or a high degree of difficulty, and that can be corrected with "your paper was a female dog? That's odd. Explain." I use bitch myself, mostly with friends.

What else? I use the word bum sometimes to describe homeless men, which I am rigorously stopping myself from doing. I think it's a bit of a Philadelphia thing, since most people from beyond the area have nodded sagely when I say something about that, whereas people from Philly look perplexed. I do use things like nutter ("nutter-butter," "nutbar," and "nutbag" are all favorites), and I love the word douche ("douchetruck" and "douchebag" also great friends of mine). That last one is the best for me, since I'm offended by the concept of the douche, and if someone comments on my colorful language I can launch into a rant against douching. Win! Also, I used to sell them when I worked at the pharmacy. Little known fact: the reusable douche and the reusable enema look -exactly the same-. They're basically a hot water bottle and a tube!

Re: begins intelligently, devolves into douching.

[pisica.livejournal.com]

Oh thank you for that mental image.

Seriously, it's more interesting than my current workload....

And thumbs up for the 'paper is a female dog' line.

[rysmiel.livejournal.com]

Gosh. I've never moved in circles where "mentalist" didn't exclusively mean "stage hypnotist".

But then, more than one place I have worked has independently come to the realisation that when I swear creatively at length, things are moderately annoying and can be helped with, and when I say "Oh dear" quietly, they vacate the office because I'm half a second short of throwing furniture at someone. One of those places recorded the latter to use as error message-sound on a couple of their important computers.

[yiskah.livejournal.com]

It seems to be a bit of a London thing, which I didn't know. I just wanted to have a mental health related term in there, and could have equally gone with something like "loon" or "nutter".

[majea.livejournal.com]

I find it interesting that, for some of those, I can make an argument for context, while others I would find offensive under any circumstance. I seem to make up my own rules as I go along, but logically, if I avoid one word because it insults a group of people, I should avoid all of them. I don't, though. I use 'bitch' with friends, always intended as a joke. I used to use gypped, though stopped once someone explained its origin.

I never even heard chav before I moved here. The closest US equivalent is white trash, which I have used. It's never been directed at other people, but more in the context of "This week, I only have enough money for top ramen and Snickers. I'm so white trash." I have attended a white-trash themed barbecue, in which people were encouraged to wear white vest tops, do jello shots, and play volleyball on the lawn. It did not seem intended to mock a group of people, but rather to jokingly embrace parts of white American culture that most of us, even the middle class, had been brought up with. At the same time, the phrase is clearly rooted in classism and I recognise that it's a problem. Again, context. When I've used the phrase, I'm affectionately referring to the Tuna Helper and Kraft Mac & Cheese aspect of my childhood. If someone else used the term, particularly someone non-white, the meaning completely changes for me.

Damn. I actually had a point to make about the word chav, so I spent so long rambling about a phrase that isn't even in your poll that I forget what that point was.

[pisica.livejournal.com]

But you rambled in an interesting and amusing way! This is good!

[ultraruby.livejournal.com]

Oooh, also! Language thing that's been bothering me - the other night someone asked me if I was 'a lesbian' wheras (I imagine) with a bloke they'd ask if they were 'gay'. Why is that? Why is the question aimed at women sort of object-ish and the one aimed at men not?

Also also, I think this is reference to a general phrasing thing in my mind, actually, cos I don't like it when people say 'blacks' 'gays' etc, I think because it's a bit object-ish and dismissive. I try and always say like 'christian people', 'muslim women' 'gay men', 'somali people' or whatever.

I say 'mental' a lot because I lack the vocabulary to properly articulate what I mean and because in my head i've given the word its own meaning. Which I know isn't good enough but still. I use it in the same way as I would 'ill', or 'sick' (not the youth usage, the illness one) but with a slight clarification towards head not-rightness as opposed to body not-rightness. If I know someone's depressed or whatever I'll use the right word, though. And I am very strict about not using words like 'depressed' when what I mean is 'sad'.

Oh, it's a minefield.

[class-worrier.livejournal.com]

Using the word depressed for 'normal' sadness is fine as its one of the definitions.

"but I didn't meeeeeeeaaaaan it like that!"

[mollydot.livejournal.com]

Recently, in a community wot we are both members of, someone managed to offend at least three people and got called on three different things. I thought she dealt with it really well. She apologised, owned her mistake, and changed the instance that she could change (the one in the post, the comments had to stay). And even told one of them that she was right to pull her up on her word use.

Re: "but I didn't meeeeeeeaaaaan it like that!"

[yiskah.livejournal.com]

I didn't see the post in question before it was edited, and didn't read much of the discussion, but yeah, what you describe seems to be the absolute ideal way of dealing with unintentionally offending someone.

(I love that icon!)